Racing News - SEQ Trail and Road Running
Racing News - SEQ Trail and Road Running
Ep 106 - Billy Curtis - RN Trail Runner of the Year 2023
Racing New's 2023 Trail Runner of the Year Billy Curtis steps off the rugged terrain and into our podcast studio, sharing the heartbeat of his journey from the team huddles of rugby league to the independent peaks of trail running. As Billy opens up about the intricacies of juggling life as a student, farmer, and now trail co worker, it's evident that his story is not just about athletic prowess but a testament to the balance of dedication across all facets of life. We explore the essence of his training, his early race days, and how his rugby background has been an unexpected asset in the world of solo running.
Venture with us through Billy's exhilarating trail racing adventures, where each race is a chapter filled with strategic confrontations and personal victories. From an eye-opening first race at the Glasshouse 50 to his tactical success at renowned events like the SEQ series and the UTA 22km, Billy recounts the pivotal moments and the highs and lows of competing against both the course and the clock. His global race ambitions come alive as he reminisces about the grueling 50K in Borneo and the Ultra Trail Kosciuszko, painting a picture of the sheer determination required to excel in this demanding sport.
As we edge closer to the starting line of upcoming races, Billy, Kyle and Tom trade predictions and tips from our trove of trail tales, offering a glimpse into the riveting world of competitive trail running. The Golden Trail Series looms on the horizon, promising stories of triumph and the relentless spirit of runners like Billy and the community's legends. His gratitude for being part of the conversation resonates with each of us who turn passion into footsteps on the trail. Join us for an episode that's as much about the inner journey as it is about the outer miles.
Thanks for your Support!!
All right, Kyle, here we go. Episode 106, Racing News Podcast. I haven't seen you for a couple of weeks, Kyle, I think. Well, we're training for very different things now, aren't we? You're training flat and I'm trying to get as many hills as possible. I saw you briefly in the ring for 10 seconds last Monday as we crossed paths. That's right.
Speaker 2:I reckon that's the least we've seen each other between episodes before. I think we've got some catching up to do. Yeah, because you've been training in completely different places to me, but no, it's been good.
Speaker 1:I've been getting as much climbing as I possibly can. At the moment there's some pretty good climbers around the Gold Coast. I don't know if I'll get a chance to talk about that today, but anyway, we've got a very special guest, haven't we? Kyle, someone that we've wanted to have on the podcast since probably the end of last year, when we informally announced him, or announced him, as our Trail Runner of the Year. Didn't we? I'm not, it wasn't an official.
Speaker 2:No, that's definitely formally. There's nothing informal about this, Tom. That's official. We have the final say.
Speaker 1:We've been trying to set this up for a while. So, billy Curtis, welcome to Racing News Podcast. Mate, it's great to finally have you on.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, finally have you on. Oh yeah, it's awesome to be on the show. I listen to it all the time and yeah, it feels funny to listen to the intro and actually be here.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, thank you for giving us your time. We've got a lot to chat about because you had a tremendous 2023. As we said, we don't have formal awards on Racing News Podcast yet, but I think at the end of the last season, when we did the 100th episode, we said it had to be you because it was just a remarkable 2023. So look, before we get into running, I think the first thing that Kyle and I would love to know, and the listeners, is just give us a little bit of an insight into your life outside of running, other things that you do, other pursuits and work and things like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I'm a full-time student at the moment, studying at the University of Sunshine Coast. Lucky enough, they actually took me on as an elite athlete, as a trail runner. So yeah, if there's any young athletes out there, talk to university and get some support from them, because they do help out a bit. So I'm finishing that degree this year and I've been working in agriculture the past few years on macadamia nut farms up in sort of that beer area, so right at the start line of beer at night, which is one of the reasons I raced that at the start of last year.
Speaker 3:Yep, and it was good to actually warm up on the farm because that that road at the front there gets very crowded so I could warm up on the farm and then just sort of jump straight into the race. Outside of that, I work at the trail coat now. So I've just finished working at the farm about three or four months ago. So that helps a lot with recovery and I can now sell shoes at the trail coat and sort of relax a little bit more compared to the 10, 12-hour days I do at the farm.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's a pretty gruelling day, isn't it? 10 to 12 hours and then trying to get some training in. Was that a bit of a challenge or do you think it toughened you up with the kind of incidental training away from?
Speaker 3:running. Yeah, definitely, definitely. I think it toughened me up because at the end of a big day I'd be going straight from the house to the top of Mount Biowar was 2.5km, with about 500m of climbing straight up, and I'd have to run probably 10km back home to where mum and dad were living because I'd stay out in the farm while I was there.
Speaker 3:So you would chop and you're up, and then I'd run to work in the morning at about sort of 4.45, 5 o'clock in the morning and then start work, and then you'd do the same thing in the afternoon and try to eat as much food as I could during the whole day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, Kyle. We often wonder about this, don't? We? Like when people burst onto the trail scene, like what their background actually is. And we don't actually know too much about you, Billy, in terms of what you did in your younger days. So is there a sporting background to you or is there a sub-story somewhere that we don't know that would make you know what we now know about you, sort of add up. So tell us a little bit about your younger days when it comes to athletic pursuits yeah.
Speaker 3:So I grew up in the glasshouse mountains, actually until I was about eight or nine and then I started playing rugby league at around that age and moved up to Bundaberg and then the only sport I ever played anything I ever pursued was rugby league. I even changed schools to a school that was sort of performing highly in rugby league and then went on to play a fair bit of representative football Not usually in the best teams in the representative side of things so I got very used to losing, but it was the highest competition you could possibly play as an age grouper. So yeah, I worked really hard outside of just my own training for school and representative and club level, but I'd say I never sort of performed 100% in a team environment on the pitch, I suppose.
Speaker 2:What position did you play, Billy?
Speaker 3:Half-back in 5'8". So a lot of training skills and trying to get quite fit.
Speaker 1:Was that yours, kyle? What were you? What position were you? Were you winger?
Speaker 2:No, See, I was listening to this going. I only played rugby league until I left school as well, so a lot of similarities here. But I played in the back row and played dummy half. But maybe that's a good thing. I've come from playing in the back row. Yeah, I was a lot bigger and heavier heavier than I am now so I've done okay getting into the running. But yeah, no, I definitely did not play in the halves when I played footy. But how long did you play till? How old were you when you kind of stopped playing completely?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so up until about 19. So I finished high school and then probably took six to 12 months of. You know, when you finish high school you sort of go what am I doing? You find quite hard to train because you're sort of in a whole new environment. I moved down to the Sunshine Coast and tried to play some representative football down there and I was making the teams, probably not committing 100% to it. And then over the two years after high school then I committed to it.
Speaker 3:I wanted to play at a high level and come down to some pre-season games and I was probably over-training in the gym, doing too much, just too much all the time, and I come to a pre-season game and herniated my L5S1. And that sort of finished the whole rugby league thing for me. And, yeah, I sort of went off and did some other things, did a bit of travel, finished a university degree so I'm still at university, it's been a long time at university and then, yeah, over time sort of went into different sports. I did a lot of climbing and hiking and outdoor sports and that slowly led me into trail running because I wanted something competitive and I find I couldn't really get the competitive yeah, the competitive edge out of climbing and hiking. So I sort of got into trail running somehow from there.
Speaker 2:See this now adds up.
Speaker 3:How did you?
Speaker 2:find the. I was going to say, how did you find the transition from team sport coming across to a completely individual sport? Because I found it an interesting transition as well. But how do you find now, like training, where it's pretty much entirely up to you, like it's purely individual, versus playing footy?
Speaker 3:yeah, I don't want to make this sound wrong, but I much preferred having like all everything's up to me in solo sports, especially in endurance sports. It's about putting as much work in as you can, as much time especially. So I was putting a lot of that time in as a youth athlete but, like I said, I probably wasn't getting it out in the actual games that I was playing, and that's probably due to my own inability to play, to sort of control a game. You know a half or five-eight has to control a game, has to be very assertive to the rest of the team, and I probably couldn't quite wrap my head around that. But work ethic was always there, time spent, training was always there. So when it comes to trailing, it's very, very easy. You've just got to find some really big hills and spend hours and hours, and hours each week on them.
Speaker 1:Well, kyle, this, as I said, this is starting to add up now, and we jokingly said before that Billy's wearing a T-shirt today for this interview which is Killian Jornet's brand. But when hearing about Billy growing up in the mountains and doing hiking from a young age and trekking and those sort of things, it's not too dissimilar, is it? We might have got our own little Killian Jornet you know our Queensland version here.
Speaker 3:I wouldn't say I was hiking at a young age, but similarly I grew up on a farm, so you're always outdoors. We didn't really have a neighbourhood of friends to hang out with, it was me and my older brother. It's essentially hiking You're always walking to fishing spots, you're always on motorbikes, you're always outdoors doing all sorts of things and then playing as much footy as we possibly could. So you're running a lot and getting a big engine at a young age.
Speaker 1:That's good to know. Good to know because you did kind of burst onto the scene a bit in terms of South East Queensland trail running and when I was looking back through the notebooks that Kyle and I have got, all of a sudden your name starts to appear, and then it appears more and more and more. So it'll be interesting. Before we go into your results, I guess this is something Kyle and I do at the start of each episode as we go through, like our training. But it'd be nice to know from you what a, what a normal sort of training week looks like and how you structure it. You know, apart from race weeks and taper weeks and things like that, so could you give us like a a monday to sunday or whatever you do, and you know roughly how you structure the week? I think people would be interested to hear how you do it yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3:I usually structure out everything that's not running first, so what my work week looks like, what my university week looks like and then just find blocks whether it's morning, afternoon, midday or around basically any time of the day that's available and then find as many hours as I possibly can to run and sort of evenly distribute my energy across the across the week. When it comes to doing an event like buffalo or cozy, you've got to put in those long, tough runs in there somewhere. So that's usually for me actually it's usually midweeks now that I do those longer, tougher runs. I actually did one this week down in New South Wales with Liam McKenzie, so I got to run with another very good runner and it's good to do that because you get to push yourself a lot harder. When you're out there solo for three hours you can get a bit lazy and go off and look at some trees and jump in the water and probably take it too easy sometimes.
Speaker 3:But the the normal week for me. I'll just go straight through. It now would be a monday. Before work got an easy 15k in around tui forest. So down south of brisbane um tuesday, our day off. So it's just a bit of uni work at home, went for a cup of coffee, ran home from coffee and then then.
Speaker 1:Not a lot, that's good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so pack the running clothes whenever I got with my girlfriend a coffee, or pack the running clothes and then run back home.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because it takes 20 minutes to drive home. You may as well run 30, 40 minutes back home Great idea. And then I drove down to northern New South Wales where Liam McKenzie lives, went for an easy run along the rail trail there. Which I have a challenge for especially the north guys if they want to have a good challenge is to go set the FKT from point to point on the rail trail.
Speaker 1:What's the distance for that?
Speaker 3:It's around 24, 25km, yeah, so you'll need someone to pick you up at the end, unless you want to turn around and run back.
Speaker 1:Is that the same section that Tom Evans and the group did, though, when he was out here in the training camp, because that might be a tough FKT?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, so I don't think they had someone at the other end to pick them up. So I think they went out about 10 to 15k and then returned. Okay, yeah, liam and I had a lift from the end. Yeah, we didn't do a stupidly fast pace, so it's very achievable for some of those north skies, but I think it was about a 3.55 pace from point to point. It's very flat too, so it'd be good to get some competition out there at that rail trail.
Speaker 1:There you go, kyle, there's one for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just got to get down there, there's one for you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, just got to get down there. I need to actually run on it. I haven't even run on it yet.
Speaker 2:I'm that close to it, I haven't even run on it. I definitely need to get down there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely get down there with a group of people and go for a run. It's a super wide fire trail and very forgiving ground. It's forgiving ground like it's much better than running on concrete and bitumen all the time. Yeah, um, yeah, so that that wednesday morning I had out for that 26k run with liam and then the afternoon I did another 5k just around some waterfalls around that northern new south wales and, yeah, the next morning went for a long run. Um, we got in about one and a half thousand meters of vert, over 28k. Yeah, it was around three hours. So, um, sort of a bigger, bigger vert day. I try to do one of those at least once a fortnight if I'm not training for a longer race. And then the rest of the week was basically easy, running whenever I could fit it in. So probably 18 to 22K a day. And then today just did a treadmill workout because I find it a little bit more forgiving on my legs than doing it on the concrete in Richmond.
Speaker 1:Yeah Now, kyle, when Billy started talking, I saw you nodding along. Quite well From a coaching point of view, did you like the first thing he said, which was basically he sets out his work schedule to start with and everything else he's got on, before he even considers he's running? That would have made you very happy from a coach, wouldn't it?
Speaker 2:You can only train with what time you've got. It's perfect, perfect. I think most people should do it like that. I think that's how it works, because I think you can have a plan on paper that you think is going to work, but if it doesn't fit into life then it's not going to work. So I think that's perfect. And I'm just going to give everyone the stats on your week, billy, because you made that sound very cruisy like it was a normal week. I just got it here very impressively 148.8 kilometres and just over 3 000 meters of climbing. If you don't mind, that's a good week of trail.
Speaker 3:That is a very good I will say that did take 14 and a half hours, so a lot of the places are very like, quite quite slow. So I do a lot of easy running, a lot of very easy don't play it down. That is a very impressive week I really enjoy running, so as much as I can get out there, I'll get out there and run, yeah all righty.
Speaker 1:Um, that's good. That gives us a bit of an insight. So I mean, let's, let's go through. We've got a lot to chat to you about. Um, we'll get on to things like golden trail national series and buffalo stampede and things like that. But, kyle, I think it'd be good to go back, wouldn't't it a little bit, and just unpack some of his early races. So the first one that I guess we sort of came across was in 2021, billy, was the Glasshouse 50. I think you beat Ollie Waddingham that day, I think, and you ran about 4.17 for the 50K at Glasshouse, which, in comparison to most years at Glasshouse, is incredibly quick. What are your memories of that particular day? Was that the first big trial race that you'd done?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was 100% the first trial race I'd done. I did not know what.
Speaker 1:I was doing the whole time.
Speaker 3:It was a 3am start. There was only about 20 people in the 50. They might have had a different start time for the other groups, maybe. I think sometimes they have two start times for the 50 out there there wasn't many people. We got walked out into the bush. I was very confused.
Speaker 3:I only had about three hours sleep. And yeah, I just sort of took off at the sort of pace that I was training at, not anything stupid fast. And yeah, I sort of ran the first 25k and I was like why am I so far ahead? Here is something going wrong yeah there's a few little changes to the course. I was a little bit worried that I was off course and some of the markings are really far apart.
Speaker 3:Now I know that they're not actually far apart, but at the time, I thought they'd have to be every 10 meters or so, wouldn't they? Especially at night time? Um, and then, yes, at around 25 K, I was sort of getting quite excited cause I was like, oh, I feel so good and, yeah, sort of finished the last 25 pretty quickly. Um, at, at the time, I think I had everything wrong in terms of I didn't know what nutrition was. I didn't know what a gel was. Someone handed me like a chocolate-flavored gel at one stage. I was like I don't know what to do with this, and so I tried to consume and spat it back out, and I had multiple, multiple toilet breaks during that race as well.
Speaker 3:The good thing was, being ahead, that I could just jump straight in the bushes and so get everything done and keep going and sort of never got, never got seen. But in your first race, that's all very um, I mean, everyone would experience that in their first race. I suppose everything's very confusing. You feel like you're going the wrong way the whole time. Um, and yeah, I ended up finishing that race and I don't think, don't think anyone was expected in until around five hours, so there was no one actually at the finish line really.
Speaker 3:So it was good for me, I think, because there wasn't any woo-hooing as I finished the race. It was sort of like, hey, what are you doing here? What race did you just finish? What are you doing here? What race did you just finish? Yeah, I feel like that was a good thing because you couldn't your first event, you, you shouldn't get too overly uh, I don't know emotionally excited about when you finish. I mean it can be a good thing, but I think at the same time it can boost your ego a bit too much. So that was probably, that was probably good for me, I think yeah, what did you take out of that race then?
Speaker 1:like you've said you're obviously you didn't know too much about what to do, so what were your?
Speaker 3:big takeaways from the common theme of the first few races I did was I just wanted to see how I would stack up against. Um, it was actually a lot of the guys who I now realize run for noughts. So a lot of those guys had ran, that have ran the local events and I sort of look at them as being very talented runners and they are very talented runners. I think around that same year Tom Brimlow had won or got second at UTA, so I was looking at his results, looking at Kyle's results I think he ran the Flinders Tour back then as well. I remember looking at all those times and going. If I can be anywhere near that, then I think this is worth.
Speaker 3:I think it's worth racing these events and having a good go, because before I just thought that you know, I was doing some 50K runs on my own, you know, and just going out and doing it and being kind of happy and satisfied with that and then being told you know, you should go jump into one of these events that they call like trail running. You can go race them too, and initially I thought I don't really want to pay for this. But I'll give it a go and once you do it. You'll keep signing up and doing as many as you possibly can. But yeah, a lot of it was to look at where I kind of stacked up against everyone else, that I sort of looked up to a lot of those guys when I first started. So, yeah, against everyone else, that I sort of looked up to a lot of those guys when I first started, so yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a good sort of breaking ground, Kyle, isn't it to getting into trail races, the AAA races up at Glasshouse. You've done a fair few of them, haven't you, over the years. What are your memories of those, Kyle?
Speaker 2:I've done a couple of them. Well, I remember I was just laughing when you said when you got in and no one was there, because I remember I finished I think it was Cook's tour in maybe 2018. And I finished and the first thing that anyone said to me was like no, you must have gone the wrong way. So I had to spend the next five minutes like stopping my watch, downloading the run, like showing them the course. I'd be like no, no, I promise, like I ran the course and they're like races. Like I said, they're not. They're nice and runnable. You can kind of, like I said, just switch off. There's nothing like. There's obviously challenging parts, but nothing compared with some of the big kind of really hilly races. So I think most people around here have probably done at least one of them. So I think they're a perfect kind of first-time race for someone, as long as they don't get lost, because we've all probably got lost at least a little bit in Glasshouse at some point, but that's part of trail running too. So, no, they're great events.
Speaker 1:And so, billy, you mentioned as well that there's another race, that particular season that was important to you, was that Mount Glorious. Was it as well in 2021?
Speaker 3:important to you was that mount glorious. Was it as well in 2021? Yeah, yeah, mount glorious. So there, there's been a lot of very good runners who had ran mount glorious in the past and it's it's a really, it's a really tough course. I think a lot of people look at those races down south in victoria, new south wales and even tasmania and go, oh well, they're the tough races and you look at the course profile of Mount Glorious it's 20 kilometres with 1,200 metres of climbing. There's hardly a race in the country that matches that. The Buffalo Stampede's 20K is around that elevation profile as well and it's looked at as a huge race and it is a huge race. It's a really, really tough race, but so is an event like Mount Glorious and I saw that guys like jonathan peters I think jonathan peters is a really good marathon yeah, yeah, tom brimlow and his name escapes me.
Speaker 3:Young, poor yeah, you're in pure yeah, yeah, yeah so those guys all ran in really fast times and someone like Tom had the same year. I think that he ran 148 there. He'd also ran UTA and got on the podium there. So I I looked at that race and went all right. So if I can get anywhere near Tom's time, then maybe one day I can go to UTA and like feel like I don't know, it looks like I should be going, like it should be a thing that I could do in the future.
Speaker 3:So I went and ran that race and I actually had a big night out the night before. I got hammered the night before and woke up really late and really hungover and had to start in wave four of that race. And how it works at McLaurys is because it starts at a small start line. You've got to send off four different waves. So I rolled in after having a sausage McMuffin and sort of got to the start line, had no water, no nutrition, yet still hadn't worked that out and, yeah, went and ran that race and my time that I got was 1.51. So I thought I'm within, you know, three, four, five minutes of those really really good runners and just went. Wow, I should actually not drink before a race.
Speaker 1:You sound like a genuine trail runner. Billy, this is what it is. This is what you can do. You can do this, but you can't do it at road racing. I don't think you can do it on a trail, so it's all good.
Speaker 1:All right, kyle, kyle, I'm going to go through Billy's 2023, and then I want you to pick a couple of races, kyle, that you want Billy to unpack, because it was quite an extraordinary season, and I apologise here, billy, if I leave anything out, but I remember Kyle, when we went through the overview of 2023, I went through each month and Billy's name kept popping up. So, bor at night, you win the 21 kilometres in February. Then you set the course record in March at Ewanmatic. You then SEQ series, the short course of the overall champion there. Then you have the race which we'll get to later on as well, which is the Brisbane Trail Marathon, the 25K race when you race against Ben Duffus and Jeremy Hunt, which, by all accounts, sounds like it was a race for the ages, which it would have been great to see In May. Then you placed third down at UTA in the UTA 22km race as well. You raced BTU30 as well.
Speaker 1:I didn't notice, but you went to Borneo in Malaysia and raced a trial 50K over there, placing fourth. It was a triple top mountain. I'm not too sure where that one is. Maybe you can tell us about that. You were second in that one. And then, of course at the end of the season, utk 50 kilometre, second place. What a season, kyle. What do you want him to talk about first? Out of that?
Speaker 2:do you want him to talk about first out of that? I'd love to. I actually want to hear a bit more about the borneo race only because I remember reading your description of this race and I'm like I can only imagine how hard it was. It was one of those ones that I read the description went I don't think people are going to comprehend how hard this would have been to do. And then I reckon, probably the Kosciuszko one. I feel like that was probably like the, I would say, the biggest race or the biggest result of the year as far as like the size of the race. And yeah, well, that's from an outsider's point of view anyway, you might feel a bit different, Billy. But yeah, I'd love to hear about that day in Borneo, that trail race, and then about Kosciuszko.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I chose the Borneo race because I wanted to experience a bit of international racing without having to travel to Europe and spend a lot of money to get over there. You can get to Southeast Asia relatively cheap and also there's a lot of good runners in Southeast Asia, those UTMB races, there's Asian Trailmasters and there's a lot of sky running races over there and a lot of talent. So I went to that. Borneo race was part of the spartan world championship so I've sort of had done the btu, which is also part of it. So I thought, oh, that's a bit familiar and I figured that it would be a familiar race. Once I got there yeah, once I got there it was like an event I'd never been at before. It was jump in a taxi and get driven out like 100K out into the bush in the middle of the night. So you jump in a taxi around 10 pm. You got out to the start line at about like 11.30 and no idea where you are the whole time. So, so tired and you start the race at 12 and it's just running straight out into the Borneo jungle and there's you go through a few I guess you'd call them villages and because it's the middle of the night. All the dogs are just absolutely crazy. So the whole night we're being chased by wild dogs. There was three or four Kenyan runners as well running. So there's a lot of good African runners in Southeast Asia and they go to some races when there's a lot of, um, good african runners in southeast asia and they go to some races when there's a bit of prize money, uh, involved. And they were quite good because they were so used to to dogs and they had they didn't have their head torches, they actually had their little um like hand torches and they would sort of beat the dogs away with their hand torch as we were running along. So that's sort of an idea. And then animals that you see on course, the snakes we saw along the trails, just colours you couldn't even imagine, and they're just crawling beneath your feet as you're going along through the jungle.
Speaker 3:And it was insanely slow. The course profile was only 1,700 metres of vertical gain, over 50k. But my average pace was so slow that my Strava assumed that I was stopped, so my elapsed pace is actually my average pace was so slow that my Strava assumed that I was stopped, so my elapsed pace is actually my real pace. But because it was so thick in the jungle, gps couldn't pick up and you're going so slowly that it just assumed you were standing still. And the heat and humidity so it's 30 degrees in the night it was 99% humidity the whole time. It was just insane and underfoot. I think, kyle, you ran it the Yandina 21K the other day where it was quite muddy. I'd probably imagine the muddiest part you ran through was the entire race through the Borneo Rainforest. Wow, and it's going through like rainforests.
Speaker 2:See, I feel bad about complaining about you and Dina now after listening to you talk about that race.
Speaker 3:Any muddy race is tough because you just can't, your muscles don't know what to do, but yeah, so the rainforest canopy was as low as it possibly could be for the trail, so I was quite a bit taller than the other competitors, um, so they would really zip underneath the, underneath the jungle and like they're also ducking and weaving the whole, the whole race as well. But I'm not super tall at all, but I would be like half bent over the whole race, sort of running through this jungle, and it's completely dark and there's there's insects, eyes, and there's animals, eyes everywhere. And yeah, and then, and then you get to a village and you think, oh, finally some relief. You know you're about a k of road to get to the next section, and then you'd have dogs chasing you the whole time. So, yeah, it's just it.
Speaker 3:It was good for me, though, because I I think I was in third until 45k, and then we had a climb. All the climbs are extremely steep, so you need a rope the whole time, and it was obviously very muddy, so you couldn't get up without a rope and I just stopped for like 10 minutes. I could not move, my entire legs were just cramping, and then one of the North Face athletes who raced just sort of said, hey, how are you going? I said not good, I'm cramping. He said me too and just flew past me. I was like, oh, that's good for me, I think. I think I'll remember that for a long time. That's good for me, I think I think I'll remember that for a long time.
Speaker 1:So I mean, is it the sort of place we go back to again? Is it just something you just wanted to test it out in early days, or do you see it as a place that you'll go back to in the next five years? Southeast Asia to race there.
Speaker 3:I'll definitely go race again in Southeast Asia Asia more broadly definitely I'd love to race in. I'm planning on racing in South Korea at the end of the year. One of the UTMB races is there in Jeju Island. I'd love to go race that. Hong Kong 100 is one of the biggest events across Asia. I'd love to race that. And I would like to go back to one of those really tough Malaysian races again and just have another go at it, because I was happy with the whole event. It was amazing, but it was so tough to move so so slowly and then watch some of the other guys just be able to run so efficiently through the mud.
Speaker 1:Well, maybe Kyle Billy needs to sort of catch up with Hayley Teal, because Hayley and a few others went to Nine Dragons recently, didn't they? And did very well there. So that's a race in Asia which is very popular as well. So tell us now, billy, about the COSI race, the COSI 50, because you'd had some success, obviously earlier in the year at UTA in the 22-kilometre race. So you were third there in 151. And then you go down to Ultra Trail Cosi, which it was in its second year, wasn't it last year? Second year they'd done it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the second year and the first time the course had been ran correctly.
Speaker 1:It was the first year they had to flatten it out a lot Before you actually go into the race. What was your confidence? Like going down there? Because you had a phenomenal year, I mean, did you go down there thinking I can podium, or was it a top 10, or was it a case of like this is, you know, the biggest 50k race that I've done on the, you know, the utm b circuit, I guess in australia. So what was your? What was your aim?
Speaker 3:yeah, I was quite confident on a podium. I think that I had a lot of distractions beforehand to keep me busy. The borneo race and then triple top yeah, um, I always look at the race. That's, that's next. I don't really look ahead at and aim for, you know, two races ahead as being that, that being the priority. It's always the next one that you've got to sort of get towards and do well at, and then you can sort of move along, and that's just mentally that I do that. Obviously, when you're training for something like Kosciuszko, you want to be training correctly for it 12 weeks out, but having something like Triple Top Mountain Race keeps your mind distracted a little bit from the biggest race of the year. I suppose you'd call it it was the A race of 2023.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so take us through it then, because it's a phenomenal location. I know the first year they had particularly cold weather so they had to change all the courses and things, but it looks absolutely outstanding the course. So give us a bit of an overview of how it went.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so the course starts at us a bit of an overview of how it went. Yeah, so the course starts at at crack and back. I might get some names wrong here, but it starts at crack and back where all the lodges are, and you do a couple of loops, a very flat loops, around the lodge and then you head up straight towards um threadbow so you have about it's a 25 to 30k of about 200 meters of vertical gain. So it's very flat and those guys that could run on a flat throw quickly um got to that sort of 25 to 30k marker insanely quick. I think I was 14 minutes behind that lead group at that that period of time yeah um, which which you think that's.
Speaker 3:That's terrifying to be that far behind, but it would have only been. You know, less than two hours into the race you've got another two and a half hours to go of really steep climbing and then really technical descending. So I was quite confident. I was running with tom driscoll at the time and well, I kept saying to him like we're in a good spot here. Yes, we're, we're behind, but we're feeling good here. And from all reports everyone ahead of us is pushing really hard. So I don't imagine they're going to be moving up those steep climbs too quickly because they're not runnable.
Speaker 3:No one was running the steepest climbs on those ski hills. So then, once we got to the ski hills, it's about seven, eight hundred meters of just climbing straight up over. I'd say it's only two or three k of the first climb, or maybe it may be a little bit further, but it's very steep, it's not, it's not runnable. Um, and that's what I saw, um gabrielle and and past gabrielle and he ran a. He ran an awesome race there. I think he managed an eighth or ninth or something there as well.
Speaker 3:So another good South East Queensland performance. But I passed him and had a quick chat and then sort of headed up to the top and I think at that stage I'd passed someone else and I was around fifth or sixth and I was feeling great, feeling confident, hadn't decided to sort of push too much yet. And then on the first descent it's. It's basically back down on a technical track where you're passing the 27k runners, so it's a bit hard getting around people and it's quite technical. So another sort of four or five k down. That's when I thought I can really get a bit of time here because I know that I'm a good descender and I think I put a few minutes in there.
Speaker 3:And then you cross To the next climb and I wish I knew the names of all the climbs be across to the next climb, which is dead flat but very technical hmm, and that's when I passed phrase dust and he's a very, very good marathon runner, so he'd done that first section real quick and then start climbing up that last climb, which would only be a 10% gradient for, uh, seven, eight, nine K. And that's when I passed Mike Carroll. And Mike's one of those guys that I've always looked up to, so, um, just always seeing his race results, he's consistently going really well, from anything from marathon to now 100 miler, um. So I passed him and sort of looked at him like, oh wow, that's that's. You know, that's mike carroll, like I must be doing pretty well here. This is awesome, yeah, and I'm passing him on that main climb.
Speaker 3:And five or six k later I looked ahead and I saw someone running up ahead and it was um, I forget, I forget his name coco. Um, he's the japanese runner, really good runner, um, who's gone well at like golden trail series races. And I looked ahead and went oh my god, he's, he's a, he's a few minutes ahead here, but I think I can. I can really mean if I can have a good descending, a descending time. And then we sort of got to the very, very top of that last climb and I was about five meters behind him and just went all right, it's time to go and set it really really quick down the first sort of section of the scent, which is all grass, and I don't think he knew I was anywhere near him at that time but I went flying on past and I thought, oh yeah, we've got him here. We've only got about five or six more kilometers to the finish line. I'm a good descender, I'll be right.
Speaker 3:And then, yeah, about five minutes later it comes through a technical section to like a fire road for 100 meters and he just flies on past me Like it was like a joke. He like sort of looked at me and it was like who do you think you are passing me like that before Because you're passing a lot of other runners in the 50k course going downhill? But yeah, then it opened up again to a fire trail section and I just got around him again back into single trail and then by the time we got to the bottom it opens up to a big fire trail and I was a bit worried because I had a bit of a cramp coming in my hamstring. But sort of looked trail and I was a bit worried because I had a bit of a cramp coming in my hamstring but sort of looked around and there was no sight of him yet. But that was only like 20-30 metres back.
Speaker 3:But yeah just sort of pushed through to the finish line and I think he ended up being 20 seconds behind. And then Tumas Kari, who won. He was 10 minutes ahead and he's a very good runner from Finland.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I remember following the race as it happened and I think Kyle you sending me a message as the race was starting, saying like Billy's moving through the field. I remember it. It was just wonderful to watch. So I mean, the photos from Kozzy are mostly single trail. Is that what most of the race actually is? It's an alpine single trail. Or you mentioned fire road a bit there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, so the fire road sections were just for vehicle access up to the mountain, like up to the top of the ski slopes, so you'd only be crossing those sections for brief periods of time just to link up all the single trail. But the whole course is single trail. The first 20 or 30km is a very runnable, easy single trail that you can always see about 20, 30, 40 metres ahead. So it's not quick but it's very, very runnable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a cracking season, but we do want to get on to 2024 because you've had some remarkable results this year already. We're only a couple of months in, three or four months in, and you've had some phenomenal results, particularly the one at the Golden Trail and Buffalo, kyle. What do you want to chat to Billy about? I mean, you've done Buffalo as well, haven't you? So you probably have a bit more of an insight into what to pick from Billy's brain from this one, because it was an incredible weekend of running for South East Queensland, wasn't it? Cecilia doing well and tate doing well and courtney doing well and billy. So do you want to do buffalo first before we do the golden trail race?
Speaker 2:yeah, let's chat about buffalo, because I was excited this is obviously any kind of recent stuff and I I was interested in this one because obviously we'd been messaged. I'd chatted about this race a few times on the podcast about how I was looking forward to it because it was going to be such a stacked race. And I kind of saw the start video go off and saw Charlie Hamilton and Rhys Edwards kind of sprinting off the front, as I probably expected it to be, and then I can't remember what I was doing. I was obviously doing something and then came back and kind of checked my phone and saw the split, I think, coming down off the top of the Great Walk and I was.
Speaker 2:Or I saw a video on Instagram I can't remember what it was and I was like huh, like Billy's in second, I was like I wonder what happened, like what's happened to the other guys? Like I was like surely they'll be around there as well, and then obviously started to work out that you know there'd been a wrong turn or all those things. So I'm unfold from your point of view Like did you know these guys had missed something or gone the wrong way? Or like when did you know where you were placed in the race?
Speaker 3:Because obviously that would have come as a bit of surprise when you found out. Yeah, so it was funny because I was running with Mike Carroll and Josh Linott and we were yeah, we were probably a minute behind at that stage and as I saw them, I didn't know at the time it was a wrong turn they were taking. I was assuming we were going in the direction they were going, but I could see them in the distance and sort of looked and put a marker with my eyes and looked at my watch to see how far ahead they were, just to get an idea of like what paces they were running. And you know, about 20 seconds later we get to the turn that they were going to take, which would lead another probably 100, 200 meters, to that point that I was like waiting to record at and we sort of mike was about five meters ahead of us and he said no, no, we're not going that way. Like gps, the, the um, the, the map here says like we go straight, like on the, the GPX file on his watch.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so there's not much us three could do, because they were about a minute ahead or he'd sort of gone off and did the single track and we sort of had a quick chat. We waited for the next group of runners to run ahead. I sort of yelled out and said hey, does anyone have a map to make sure we're going in the right direction here? And everyone just sort of said, yeah, keep going straight. So then we all headed off straight and I ended up talking to josh for another five, six, seven k uh, and then mike again for another 20k. We're just sort of chatting away and it did come up a bit. Uh, it's difficult to race when you know other people have gone in the wrong direction and it was super exciting the whole build-up to the event because there was I could.
Speaker 3:I was so excited to race like that level of competition. So it was a bit disappointing. Whilst we were running chatting, I was chatting to mike and sort of saying you know, it's difficult to run fast and have a good day out today in terms of actually being able to run properly, because the whole time you're thinking, oh well, it's kind of not fair. I was here to race these really good guys and now I feel like you almost feel like you're cheating a little bit. You're ahead but you're not. But when you're in that sort of race environment, you think that a bit yeah see, I look at that Billy and think that's the sport, that's the game.
Speaker 1:If bit, yeah, see, I look at that Billy and think that's the sport, that's the game. If you don't want that, then you do road running or track running. That's part of the element of trail running is having awareness of where the course is going to be and being able to fix up mistakes and things like that. Kyle, you've done Buffalo, obviously, but by the sounds of it it was a different direction, wasn't it? So any particular questions for Billy about the course itself.
Speaker 2:From what you remember, no-transcript couple of big climbs in the back half, but it's quite a well. This is again. It's not super technical, it's steep. I don't know what the course condition was like now compared with years ago, but I remember running on it, going like this is a fast course. You just got to be good at running hills, like it wasn't. There was sections at the top of Mount Buffalo that were technical and on the descent, but once you got down into the valley there was a lot of fast running on that course. It was just really steep. So I suppose, from my point of view, like how did you, given that the race is so different, you kind of got the faster bit, I suppose, towards the top, a really long descent, and then kind of you just got some major climbs. Like were you trying to think about attacking certain parts of the course or were you just going to kind of take it as it comes?
Speaker 3:Yeah, initially I was going to really push the middle section from around 10K to around 25K because you've got a lot of steep downhill. It's technical when you're running quickly downhill, but in the direction that you were going a few years ago uphill it wouldn't feel technical at all.
Speaker 2:Wasn't much speed involved.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. So there's a lot of, yeah, winding and rocky terrain, but, yeah, the aim was to push that really hard and then go up over.
Speaker 3:I think it's called dingo ridge, which is just like it's not a steep climb it's a fire roadie, climb up and down and then take on extra nutrition during that flat section up to dingo, the dingo ridge climb. But it kind of went all out the window because of how the race unfolded in the first few kilometers. I ended up taking that descent quite smoothly with mike. We just ran the whole thing together and then I ended up running, like I said, I ran about 20k with him. We were just sort of chatting away about that life and running and racing, and and then around 25k, um, I sort of had a bit of nutrition which is around that 25k is around that road section that you have to go from Dingo Ridge, that first climb to Dingo Ridge, basically.
Speaker 3:And then I sort of went all right, ok, time to push. Now we feel pretty good. So I sort of went a little bit ahead of Mike and then just held a constant pace to the end. It was a good thing about the event was that you got time splits because there's so many people out on course. But at the same time it was a bad thing because if you always getting time splits, that people are fired up away, doesn't? It doesn't encourage you to push too quickly. I sort of wish at times that people would say, no, they're coming, they're catching you.
Speaker 3:They're catching you because then it is sort of push you along a bit harder. But retrospectively it's good, because my body pulled up really well, so it was good not having to run super, super hard at the end. But then again, as well, you always want to race at the best of your ability.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, amazing. It was extraordinary to watch, wasn't it, kyle? I mean, I saw one video I don't know where it was of you and Mike and Josh descending down this technical. I can't remember who was commentating, kyle, I think you actually mentioned, or Ben Deney mentioned, that they knew the commentator who was holding the camera, and it was just you guys were flying. It was something I'd never seen descending like it. It was brave and courageous and a bit fearless, so it looks like a phenomenal race. Does it have a different feel to races that we have in southeast Queensland?
Speaker 2:being how famous this race is in the country?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it does. Yeah, they had the event precinct at like a big oval this time. It was at a smaller brewery last year, so it probably didn't have that big event feel last year for me, but this year it was in a wide open space. There's always a lot of people at food trucks. Um, there was a like a sauna, ice bath sort of thing going on. There's always a lot of people at the finish line.
Speaker 3:And then for the 42k race, I think it helped that everyone let each other know who's doing the race, so there was a bit of social media around who was racing in it, and then that means a lot of people stayed for the 42 to get on course. A lot of cars driving around to aid stations yeah, a lot of people all over the course filming, yelling. Um, it was obviously a lot of filming going on in that race. Um, which was good I think it would have been either michael Dunstan would have been filming that technical session or Matt Backholson, so you've got two elite runners who are out on course running after us the whole time. So that gave it a really sort of professional feeling when you've got guys that are probably just as fast as you on that course, filming you, chasing after you the whole time.
Speaker 1:All right, let's chat about the the golden trail series, because this is one thing that you know, kyle, and I know a little bit about, but I think you're going to know a lot more about it than uh, than we do, and you can probably inform the listeners of the podcast how this actually works and the the structure of it, and you know what's coming up in the next couple of months for it. So give us a bit of an overview of the golden trail national series yeah, so you've got.
Speaker 3:You've got four races um warburton, konyani, newcastle and brisbane. The first three races are they're basically the series races and you have to complete two of the three series races and you could do three and it's just your best. Two races count towards the points. Yeah, um, first place gets 100 points and then it sort of channels back to 88, 78, 66 sort of it just progressively goes down. Um, so your best two of that first three count towards the final points. And then you've got the final in brisbane, which is awesome to have the final in Brisbane because, like you said, myself and Tate are running in it and we've gone okay for our races that we've run so far. So we might be in contention, but the final in Brisbane is worth 150 points. So even those guys who have gotten those regular fourths, fifths and thirds, if they go and have a stellar race at the end in Brisbane, they can sort of gain back a lot of points.
Speaker 1:So it's only two races of the three, and then the final, that go towards the overall. Is that right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, so to my understanding, that is right. There's been a lot of confusion around it. I think some guys thought you just do one race and then the final, and some people thought you'd just do the final, but best two races of the first three, so you can skip one race and then you've got the final.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you're heading to Newcastle. Then for the you'd have to be, won't you?
Speaker 3:for the third one Is that right, yeah, yeah, we'll be going to Newcastle to race there, so that will be tough for me, because it's not a mountain course, it's a coastal course, so it only goes up to around 130 metres above sea level, so there's no super long climb, so I'll have to start getting a bit faster, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So give us a bit of an insight into Warburton and how that went, because that was a great result for you and I guess, for everyone who sort of follows you in South East Queensland. That was so you and I guess for everyone who sort of follows you in South East.
Speaker 3:Queensland. That was wonderful to see. Yeah, yeah, woburnum was probably the best way to start the Golden Trail and then, yeah, you could go on to Kinyani two weeks later. For those guys it was two pure mountain races for the first two races of the series. But Kinyani is basically I mean, woburnum is basically sort of a flat kilometre and then a vertical kilomet, and then you run around the top at 1200 meters for four or five k and then you go back down the same way. You came up and then you got another k to the finish. So it's a pretty simple race. You go up one way, you come back down the same way and you have 1200 meters of vertical gain over the 20k course. So you can imagine it's all in that 10k. You're climbing up, so you've got basically a 1,200 metre climb over 10 kilometres. Yeah, wow.
Speaker 1:Spectacular. And then Kunyani was the race afterwards. Now, kyle, this kind of made you start frothing a bit, didn't it about getting back into trail running when you saw the Kunyani race in particular and Tate's performance there? Now, billy, you mentioned Tate earlier, so you know Kyle knows Tate really well. He's raced against him. And so, Kyle, I guess this is where it gets really juicy and interesting for us, doesn't it? Because we want massive races between our local legends. And now we've got Billy going up against Tate, hopefully in the final. I'm presuming they're both going to be there. So what did you think from Kunyani, kyle?
Speaker 2:first, and then we'll get Billy, your take on the results from down there. Yeah well, like you said, I was excited watching this because I was sitting at the end of my first trial race and a long time waiting for the results to come through. And when I saw Tate take out the win there and just the names that he beat, that got me quite excited. Because, I've said it before, but I still think tate is one of the most underrated trail runners in the country, if not the most underrated trail runner in the country, I think he's. He's a phenomenal athlete that just can do everything really well.
Speaker 2:So I'm I'm intrigued because, like I said, for someone like yourself, billy, to race tate, I'm like, oh, who do I think's gonna win?
Speaker 2:I'm, I don't know there's probably a few other names I could throw in there so I'm like to actually get to see like a this is almost just me as like a fan of the sport kind of seeing like you know, the people you like watching like come together and actually verse each other.
Speaker 2:I'm like we just don't get that very often in running. So that kind of got me excited to kind of go, oh, and which means I'm assuming he's going to come to Brisbane because that's obviously his closest race, and the idea of having a series where we actually get to see everyone kind of race each other on the one day which we just don't see very often is exciting. So yeah, like I said, I'm excited to see how the next couple of months unfold and if there's anyone else that kind of shows up to the faster race even if they might not be in contention for the overall points for the series, but, you know, shows that they're intrigued on heading up to the final as well, because I think there'll be a few more that might just pop up down at Newcastle that are then going to throw their hat in the ring for Brisbane. So I'm excited for it.
Speaker 1:So, Billy, does Tate have to race in Newcastle then?
Speaker 3:Yeah, he does. I made sure to let him know. After, before Cagnani, I sent him a message and said can you go shake up the standings a bit, because I'm in third place, I have a third place and you want to have those standings shaken up a bit? He was umming and ahhing, I think, about whether to do the whole series, and later I found out that I think he was going for a trip away and probably couldn't make Newcastle. But I sent him a message after Cagnani then and said hey, mate, you've got to. You've got to go to Newcastle.
Speaker 3:Now, like, find a way to do it, because then you'll actually be able to do the final and you'll be able to have an overall standing. So hopefully I've influenced him to actually go race the whole series, because I want the best, the best runners to be racing the entire series and I want the best runner to win it, so then the best runner can head over and have a crack at Europe. I honestly think that Tate is one of the top guys to do that and I think before the series, if you asked me who would be the most likely to win it and Tate's name was there, I would actually say that I would rank him in that top three of who I would consider to take out the whole thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean. His results, particularly around our neck of the woods, are incredible, particularly the coastal high result against George Murray. It was just phenomenal, one that will go down in the history books. Where do you see, let's jump ahead to the Brisbane race at BTU. It's a 20-kilometre, remember, and the final sections of all the btu races come through the city, so there is going to be a bit of road then at the end, isn't there road and pavement? How do you see that playing into? Is this something which is going to be good for you, or is it going to have to change your approach? We know tate's a very good five-kilometre runner. I think, kyle, you said he's got a low 15 five-kilometre time. So where does that sit with you, billy, looking towards the final.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. So luckily we actually got an email last week to say there's been course changes for the Brisbane Trail Ultra 20 final. So now it starts out. I can't even describe really where it starts, but it's more similar to the 30K at the BTU. Yeah, you finish at the road section when the road section starts. So you start over the back of Mount Coot-tha and you do, yeah, 20k with about 800 metres of climbing Right. Okay, you've got the Kokoda Trail in there. There's a few steep climbs in there, but it's it's, yeah, very, very runnable sort of flowing, flowing terrain. So it does change it up a little bit because I agree, those road runners could jump into that course, even if they're not in the series, if it was that old course, and they would just hit that road section and run, you know, low 30, 10k at the back end of a 20k trail race yeah, so so are you saying that the finish line for the Golden Trail Race will be completely different to the 100-mile finish and the 100K finish and the standard finish at Kangaroo Point?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it'll finish very close to the Mount Krupa summit.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:That's brilliant.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. That's a great change.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it is. Yeah, all the guys and girls I've spoken to who are running. It are much more excited now that they're finished so?
Speaker 1:so what's your, what's your thought process going into to newcastle and and brisbane? Then what tell us how you're thinking?
Speaker 3:uh, in terms of training, I'll um taper back the amount of climbing that I'm doing from I was doing around before Buffalo around 5,000 meters a week of climbing sort of, move it back to around 3,000 but increase the kilometers a little bit and then do a little bit more, sort of those road roadie sort of workouts, the half 10k to half marathon type of workouts which I completely so. Hopefully I can get some short-term gains and then run those sort of just little hillier races, I suppose you could call them, compared to Warburton, buffalo and Kinyani.
Speaker 1:And so just tell us as well. So the winner of the final or the points, what does that guarantee them? So is it a ticket or a place to to europe for the golden trail? Do you know?
Speaker 3:so it's not the perfect description on the website and I can't quite get the right answer for what it is, but the winner will definitely go to the golden trail world series final. Yeah, they're still confirming the final course, but I think it's in Italy and that's basically all those national finals. So Australia, south Korea, china, switzerland, germany all those countries that have that Golden Trail National Series the first sometimes first, second and third will go to that final and then also compete against the guys and girls that have done well at races like Zagama, sierra, zanel, kobe Challenge and all those actual World Series gold trail races.
Speaker 1:So are they saying the top three from the Australian National will go, or just the first?
Speaker 3:So I don't know exactly. I think it's either first place and then first 23-year-old or it's first and second, and then the first 23-year-old as well, from both the men and women. Yeah, but I haven't quite got the perfect answer to that yet.
Speaker 1:Well, you and Tate have just got to go one, two and then that's it. We're good, aren't we? How good would that be, kyle, having Billy and Tate in the Golden Trail of Europe?
Speaker 3:No, pressure, no pressure. Ben Duffus too. He's got good enough results already, and he'll probably get very fit leading into Newcastle and Brisbane. So I think Ben's still in contention.
Speaker 1:You'd be a silly person, a silly man, to write Ben Duffus off in any race, wouldn't you? Because you know, over the last five or ten years he's been Well Kyle. I mean, you've always spoke about him in glowing terms as being, you know, our best South East Queensland trail runner, particularly over those short sub-altra distances, I guess. So, yeah, watch out for Duffus, definitely on the day. So, billy, we've got coming up in a couple of weeks. It's good to have you on here because we've got the Brisbane Trail Marathon coming up in two weeks' time. Actually, the track race. So 42 kilometres, 25 kilometer, I think they've got the 12k race in there as well, the walkabout um one as well, I think, is what it's called. So I mean, you had a great race, didn't you? Last year this is the one I talked about over the 25 kilometers against ben duffus, as we talked about him, um, and against who else was in that race with you, the third place is jeremy hunt jeremy yeah.
Speaker 3:A great runner, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so just give it for people who are going up there or people who have a bit of an interest into Brisbane Trail Marathon. The 25K seems hilly as well. We know the marathon has about 1,700, 1,800 metres of climbing in it, so give us an idea of the terrain and the course itself.
Speaker 3:So give us an idea of the terrain and the course itself. Yeah, so most of the 25K courses on that fire road around that Anogra Reservoir, for the most part it's quite runnable. There are some steep sections but you're never climbing for a crazy amount of time, so I'd recommend not going out too fast at the start.
Speaker 3:you run a quite flat section at the start and push too hard in that first 5k and you might come a little bit unstuck. Probably leave it until around 10 to 12 K to sort of pick it up a bit, because that's when you hit some of the sort of bigger hills and you can find out where your energy is around then. And then, yeah, the last five to eight k is super quick downhill.
Speaker 3:So I'd say around that around that 10 to 20, if you're doing the 25 around that 10 to 12k section, sort of then decide where your energy is at, if you can save a bit until then, and then push through the bigger hills and then you know you've got a lot of yeah flowing downhill, yeah that you can run quite quickly just give us a quick overview of that race.
Speaker 1:Then last year with you, duffus and jeremy, which was were you all together at one particular stage? Because you all ran under under two hours for 25k with that amount of climbing.
Speaker 3:So it was a classic race by all accounts yeah, I had no idea ben was doing it and and I didn't know who Jeremy was at the time.
Speaker 3:I found out after that he has a huge sort of rap sheet of races under his belt. But when I saw Ben at the start line I was very nervous because obviously I hadn't really raced in too many competitive events and I knew Ben was sort of the best runner going around in the sub-ultra distance. But we all went out together for the first I'd say 8, 9, 10k and then that first steep climb out of one of the creeks, I'm sorry, the first long climb out of one of the creeks. I got dropped pretty bad and sort of hiked on out of there until that sort of 12 to 13k section and I could still just see him off because you can see quite far ahead during the whole race and I could just see sort of him ducking over the hills and figured around that section.
Speaker 3:Like I said, before that 12, 13k section, I thought, yeah, we can push a little bit harder and I slowly sort of reeled Jeremy back in by the end of the main climbs and then I yeah, I just ran pretty hard to the bottom. I never saw Ben again. I think he was 40 seconds behind when I finished. I thought he was going to be 8 to 10 minutes in front of me. But being only 40, 50 seconds ahead, I was stoked and it was a slightly different course, but I was aiming for around his old course record which he broke, and then I just went under as well. But obviously it doesn't really count because, yeah, it got second, yeah fair enough.
Speaker 1:And Kyle, I got a little sneak peek preview at the start list for the marathon for this one coming up, so I don't know if you've still got the couple of names that I sent through to you there A couple of people coming back, previous winners and some big names from South East Queensland there, which is great. So do you want to give us a tip? Kyle for male winner and female winner or even runners-up, if you'd be so brave.
Speaker 2:So I'm looking forward to the battle between Kieran O'Brien and Brad Aird, two Norths runners going head-to-head. Brad Aird just is so good at getting second place that I think I'm going to have to do Kieran the win and put Brad in second place. As much as I want Brad to win, he can't not come second. So, brad, it's a lock-in. I hope someone's running odds on this, because I'm I'm gonna put my life savings on brad for second here. He's a guarantee. I hope he's listening too. So don't win, brad, make sure you're second. So I'm looking forward to that. Right, there's my prediction. I'm gonna get kieran first, brad second in the in the males um, and then, yeah, on the, the ladies side, we do have another um, so hayley teal's running, and then we've also got jane hoskin, who has won this race a couple of times. I believe, tom, from your, from your notes there, um, uh, sorry, no, I mean, I think I meant to write down um black or kyle.
Speaker 1:Is that jane's won black or 2022, 2023? Sorry, yes, because I was about to say that doesn't really wrap.
Speaker 2:Um see, this is interesting because the longer it goes I reckon the better. Hayley's gonna go, but jane's it's, I'm gonna go here's the question.
Speaker 1:Here's the question, colin, is it steep enough for hayley to win this? Because jane hoskin, so she wins black all in 2022.
Speaker 2:It's a nice amount of elevation too, it's just yeah it's a very black all elevation, though, isn't it? I'll pick.
Speaker 3:I'll pick jane then there you go.
Speaker 2:Okay, let me go. I'll go jane, then jane by three minutes and 20 seconds. There's my tip, tom what about? You guys, who are you thinking?
Speaker 1:well here, well, here we go, billy.
Speaker 1:So so jane hosking has won black all in 2022 and 2023. Black Blackall's got about 1,600 metres of climbing, so it's roughly the same. We know Hayley is extraordinary in mountainous races. You know she's been to the World Championships in Austria and places like that and done Nine Dragons. So, billy, you might give a bit of an insight into the course. Is this hilly enough for a true mountain runner or is it flat enough for someone who does well at Blackall to win this? If you have to make a prediction between, someone else will probably end up winning this kyle out outside of haley and jane. But let's pretend. Let's pretend it's these two billy. What do you think?
Speaker 3:oh, it's a. It's a really runnable course. I actually have done the the marathon as a a training run.
Speaker 2:That didn't go so well um a few years ago.
Speaker 3:But I have been in an event with Jane before at White Rock Travel Festival. She won it for the women there, yeah, and she is very fast, and I think it's a run of the month, of course. So I'll tip Jane, yeah, and then Hayley second, but I think it would be quite close. Yeah, I think it would be very close.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I guess, a bit like the ben duffer's comment earlier, you're a brave person to tip against hayley because her resume of results is phenomenal. But you know, I looked at jane's two times at blackhall. I think, off the top of my head, it was about 10 minutes faster in 2023 than 2022 and she was in the low fives for the 50k at blackhall. So that's, you know. As you said, billy, she's, she's quick, she's quick over the distance and maybe it's runnable enough. So so we're saying Kieran, uh, and Jane I actually ran with Kieran in the week.
Speaker 1:I say ran Kyle, we did Hellfire together and watching that guy I mean watching him go up Hellfire is impressive enough, but watching him descend Hellfire is, I mean. I only watched him briefly because he was going that fast that I lost sight of him. But, billy, this was something you must have learned coming into trail running it's. People talk about being able to ascend hills and go up mountains, but it really is the downhills, the technical ability where you just make up so much time, and someone like Kieran is just I yelled out at him. It was such a brave and courageous way to go downhill. So yeah, I don't know Billy, I think Kieran, for me as well, will probably take the win.
Speaker 3:Well, by the sound of it, yeah, I'll go with Kieran there. And did Brad win this last year?
Speaker 1:He, that's a good question. Hang on, he will dislike me for this. No, he did.
Speaker 2:Hang on, did he?
Speaker 1:Give me a second here.
Speaker 3:You have to flip back through the book Tom.
Speaker 1:Hang on, hang on. No, kieran O'Brien and Lucinda Burton won last year, so Kieran's come back this.
Speaker 3:Lucinda Burton won last year, so Kieran's come back. This is a good question here. Billy, we've got a rematch here because I ran past Brad. I remember running past him and saying g'day.
Speaker 1:So they must have gone, they must have raced last year as well, I think. That is. I think he told me in the week actually. So it is a rematch, a complete rematch. Yep, yep.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:That's good, I'll tip back.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to look for the results, okay.
Speaker 1:Okay, so Billy's going to go the boil over against Kieran there, which will be interesting.
Speaker 3:And that is wrong. Because I appreciate descending so much, because I feel like it's the only way I stay in races.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it'll be a cracking event anyway. All right, Kyle, we're just over the hour, aren't we? Which we always do? We try and stick to the hour. So, Kyle, from a coaching point of view or a racing point of view, have you got any final things for Billy before we let him go?
Speaker 2:No, I think he needs to keep doing what he's doing because it's working. Just keep doing exactly what you're doing. Like you said, just run lots, run lots of hills it's not rocket science and then you get results. Yeah, it's simple. Yeah, it's simple. Running is not that complicated. We don't need to over complicate it.
Speaker 3:Just run lots, well that is good to hear, carl, but I'll be coming to you when I jump into a road race, that's for sure. I think I've told you that before.
Speaker 2:So, Kyle.
Speaker 1:My last question for you then, kyle, is what's Billy's time on the goat loop? Where does he sit? What time?
Speaker 2:does he do? Yes, we've been talking about this. It's going to be quick. There is no other measure. There's no other measure in sport. Does he get a practice loop or is this just straight out the gate? What could he do not, having run up before?
Speaker 1:Give him one practice loop.
Speaker 2:One practice I think he would run. I think he'd be between Courtney and Dave that would be my prediction.
Speaker 3:There you go, I think he'd run 20, 26, 30.
Speaker 1:There's my prediction. There you go, Billy. It's got to be done. Run faster. It's got to be done.
Speaker 3:It's a bit short Mid-20s. It's a shorter race. I get slower the shorter we go.
Speaker 2:I'm just working off the fact that when we did this, when we did the cross-country race last year, that was quite a fast course compared with the goat loop that I'm like. I reckon like Dave was obviously in front of you in that race, but if it was significantly hillier I reckon you would have beaten Dave that day, which means I reckon you can run it a little bit faster than Dave, because that's it's a similar, it's only it's longer than that day. That was even half the distance, that was half the time. So it's only another 10 minutes longer. I reckon 26, 30-something.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, it's got to be done then. It's got to be done at some stage, at some stage maybe before you go to Europe for the Golden Trail final or whatever comes out. But, billy, look, thanks very much for your time. It's been great to chat. We've been trying to get this happening for a couple of months now and it's good to spend some time together and just find out what makes you tick and hear a little bit about the races. I know you know you're getting quite a following here in South East Queensland, particularly, you know, in the last year or so with the results that you've had, and we're excited to see what happens in Newcastle and what happens at the Brisbane final and then, potentially and hopefully, it'd be great for us and the podcast and Southeast Queensland to have someone like you over in Europe. So, yeah, we appreciate your time, mate, and all the best for the coming months, thanks.
Speaker 3:I appreciate you having me on the podcast and I love listening to it. I've been listening to it for a few years before you sort of knew anything about me, so it was kind of cool to slowly hear my name pop up every now and then. And then, yeah, now I'll be on the podcast and hopefully I can be on again in the future.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, Billy. Are you going to listen to this episode?
Speaker 3:That's the big question are you going to listen to this one? It's a long one, so I don't know.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure, no one ever does, I think, once we've had them on the light now.
Speaker 2:It's weird to listen to yourself.
Speaker 3:Don't listen to it yeah, no, I think yeah, it'll make me quite uncomfortable. Whatever I put out there, you just stay out there and I don't know yeah, re-hear it again, ripper.
Speaker 1:All right, mate. Thanks very much, kyle thanks for your time again I'll chat to you in a fortnight Kyle and cheers Billy. Thank you, you.